[tsunami78]

Not to start a political thread, but why so many adds for Prop 8 on the site? Ew! Prop 8 does nothing to "Protect" anything. It is a proposition to MODIFY THE STATE CONSTITUTION to explicitly discriminate against a minority group. This is completely antithetical to the principals of equality our country is supposed to be founded upon.

I personally am not gay, but I have friends and family who are. I support their right to Marry. The scare tactics used by the "Yes on 8" support groups are false. This proposition TAKES RIGHTS AWAY from people in California, it does not protect anyone from anything.

Vote NO on 8!

[one1]

This proposition TAKES RIGHTS AWAY from people in California

GOOD. People in Cali have been running around like wild animals for 50 years doing anything they please, producing cities that are famous for being the most violent and evil, ignoring all the laws of god and man and doing anything they damn well please while the rest of the country watches the degradation of morals mankind has spend thousands of years trying to hone. In less than half a century California has made every single taboo mainstream and ripped the fabric of small communities with "it's ok to do any damn thing you want with no consequences".

I have so many friends in Cali that I love to death, but the people as a general blanket are screwing this world up.

If you're a dude that's hormonally imbalanced and it causes you to want to nail other dudes in the azz, good for you. Live long and prosper...... but keep your azz out of mainstream America's values. You're still underground, you always will be. There will never come a day when the minority percentage that is gay will dominate the mainstream numbers, and it'll likely never become time when it even becomes relevant to count the percentage against the mainstream numbers.

California and MTV may tell you that you are part of this huge number of people and that you're not F'd up in the head, but that's the PC media for you. Filling your head with false hopes because it makes a good story. You wanna be gay, knock yourself out. I won't tell you not to nail your best buddy in the azz for a Christmas present, but don't let your hopes and a PC media fool you. There's a reason why this movement is only being considered in California. You're a creation of a state that has no morals, or rules. YOU are a minority by a LONG SHOT. You will always BE a minority and therefore you will always be a closet outcast. There's not a chance in hell this would have ever gotten even a glance if it weren't for California and their "who gives a damn" attitude on everything the human race has ever built for traditions and morals.

Be gay, be happy, but keep your azz out of mainstream America's traditions. It's an oxymoron anyway YOU wanted to be DIFFERENT. YOU wanted to be an individual that wasn't like everyone else and show that you're "special" and NOW....... you wanna do what everyone else is doing.

Marriage by gays is their way to legitimize themselves and make them feel less fruity and less of an outcast and less F'd up against mainstream America. That is the exact reason why it should NOT happen.

[iSlave]

Wow what an incredibly idiotic and uneducated response. Have fun living a life of racism/sexism. I can only hope you open your mind someday. Thank god you don't vote in my state.

[tsunami78]

@One1: So in order to make your point, you have to revert to foul language, name calling, and statements that are not backed by the facts?


First, California has been running wild for the past 50 years huh? Well we are doing something right. We have consistently had one of the largest economies in the world (yes, in the world, not just the US). We took the lead on clean air and the environment. We were on the forefront of the Civil Rights movement. Perhaps that's what you don't like? What exactly is it that we're doing in CA that is so bad? Give some examples...

You also say that California is famous for making the most violent Cities? Well if you look at the statistics, that is untrue. There is not even a city from California in the Top 10 most violent cities list of 2007. Now if you expand that to include the general crime rate, then you do get Oakland at number 6, but that's hardly a shining example of a California City. If you look at the top 25 SAFEST cities in America, California has a whopping 6, far outnumbering any other state.

Now, I will agree that Hollywood, and the media in general are a source of Moral degredation. That being said, those industries are not just based in California. Time Warner for example, the parent company of HBO, Turner (which is the parent company for several other networks), CNN, and Waner Bros. has most of it's primary offices in New York with the exception of Turner and WB (Atlanta and Burbank respectively.) Need I remind you that SNL is also based in New York? Trying to blame California for the stance of the media is simply naive and shows that you are uninformed. Your facts are wrong, and you don't know what California is about. There are a lot more conservative people in CA than you think, we just happen to look beyond our prejudice at the greater good.

Now on to the point, you like to talk about how gay people should stay out of main-stream American values. Well, I hate to break it to you but gay people have been part of the population for thousands of years. Statistically, they amount to approximately 10% of the population. That is not a small number. This is not something new. You probably have worked with, or are friends with several homosexuals. They are not evil. They are not out to mess with your way of life, they just want the right to affirm their love to each other. If anything we, in a country with a >%50 divorce rate should WELCOME the idea of more people becoming monogamous, and bringing marriage into their homes. They are trying to follow the same family values you support. They want the same rights you take for granted. They want to be able to raise a healthy family. They simply chose partners you disagree with. Do you also disagree with interracial marriage? What about marriage of couples of different religions? Up until this century, marriages like those were often forbidden as well. This is no different.

Please, educate yourself, and open your mind. Prop 8 does not protect anything, it discriminates.

[dale1v]

O_o

[poetic_folly]

Wowzer.

Well, those ads are not anything we chose, and we try to avoid political ads. Google chooses the ads based on the content of the page, with us able to nix certain ads if we see them. I will let them know to quit with that one.

As to opinions... that's why they're called opinions. I'll keep an eye on the thread.

[Paige]

Un-*******-believable racist and homophobic scum! EVERYONE should have the right to marry whether it be man/woman, man/man, woman/woman. Who the **** are we to judge others?

Proud to be in a California Same-Sex Marriage!

[theevilone]

Happy to not live in California.

[one1]

Originally Posted by iSlave

Wow what an incredibly idiotic and uneducated response. Have fun living a life of racism/sexism. I can only hope you open your mind someday. Thank god you don't vote in my state.

LMFAO two people in this thread have said racism and sexism and neither have anything to do with being gay. How does anyone possibly have any leg to stand on when you can't even mumble the proper terminology? What scares me is that YOU vote.

So let me ask.... what race do you propose a gay is? Since you propose a gay is it's own race that I am somehow discriminating against. Should I say that only a hispanic can be gay and no other race, so then you may actually have a point? No, no special treatment there.


...And what sex do you propose a gay is, since I am somehow against whatever sex a gay is? Should I say that only women can be gay and not men? So then you may have a point? No, I'd rather you not have a point and continue not having an argument.

Foolish. That's the scary part is you vote and don't even know what you are talking about. That... is "idiotic and uneducated". LOL! You kinda like slamming your head in a door on the internet, eh?

See, this is exactly what I am talking about. You just repeat anything you've heard that sounds good, don't even know what it means. The MTV generation is alive and well. Raised by the boob toob on pre-set carved out words and phrases. Anyone up for bringing Ms. Teen South Carolina in here to finish the debate off?

[DoerrFan]

Originally Posted by Paige

Un-*******-believable racist scum! EVERYONE should have the right to marry whether it be man/woman, man/man, woman/woman. Who the **** are we to judge others?

Proud to be in a California Same-Sex Marriage!

Exactly, a human is a human.
Instead of looking at each other as gay/straight/black/asian/everything else.
Why not look at each other as just a human. If a human wants to marry someone of the same sex, i see no reason why a women can marry a women or a man can marry a man.

Human Rights FTW!

[one1]

Apparently people have forgotten (California's fault BTW) that marriage is a concept of the church and the church has for thousands of years ran just fine under the concept of god and marriage between a man and woman. Now California has somehow convinced itself that in it's little "anything goes" world (have you seen the laws written by california?) that it now can simply create the rules of the church to be anything it wants.

It's a complete oxymoron. The church is of god, marriage is a concept of the church (like communion for instance), which the belief is of man and woman (adam and eve).

Does anyone not understand how backward this thinking is that you're attempting to try and change a law that is merely a law of the government and the government does not control the religion? You can pass 100 laws and you'll still only be married by the state, not of god and the church and that is the entire concept of marriage.

Why do people not get this? You think Arnold is going to force god to accept you? You can't pass a law on god.

Who are we to judge others?

LOL *smacks head* ....EXACTLY. Why do you think you can pass a law and it will have any effect on what god judges you as? Will your "California LAW" hold up against armageddon? (Ha, fools)

I'm glad I am not religious nor gay.......... I don't have to deal with all this crap. (from both sides)

You can't be married in the eyes of God because god doesn't accept you. /The end. If you have a problem with that, put a bullet in your head and go take it up with the big man himself. That's the only one that makes the decision. The "paperwork" is an oxymoron. Who want's to be married by a state? That means nothing.

[tsunami78]

@One1: Wow... where to begin.

First, the concept of marriage began long before the church as you know it today. Not to mention the fact that there are many other religions than the one you continually reference. Some religions believe in only a single man and a single woman may be married. Some other religions such as the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints (Mormons, who are also the largest single sponsor of the Yes on Prop 8 campaign) believe in polygamy. In case you don't know (which I'm guessing you don't) polygamists allow one man to marry many women. There's a great family value. My point being, religion has no bearing on this issue. This is an ELECTORAL PROPOSAL INTENDED TO CHANGE THE STATE CONSTITUTION. This is a matter of STATE GOVERNMENT, not your religion.

I do not want to argue religion here, that is not what this proposition is about. I respect your beliefs, and feel that everyone is entitled to believe what they want. That is called religious freedom, and was a core belief of our founding fathers.

As to your point about "backwards thinking" the LAW is exactly that, a rule of governance, not an attempt to control or alter religion. There is separation of church and state, so that people like you cannot impose your beliefs on to others. There is much more to the idea of Marriage than your limited view.

Again, since you don't seem to read what is said and clearly don't have an understanding of the proposition let me explain it in simple terms. Proposition 8 is a ballot measure that, if passed, will modify the California Constitution for the sole purpose of taking away a right from a minority group. Plain and simple, this is a discriminatory proposition that will single out a minority group and take away a right that every other group in the state has.

Do you not see something wrong with that? We as Americans are supposed to uphold the rights of the individual, the minority, the downtrodden, and ensure that they are treated the same way as the majority. This is completely contrary to what America was intended to be.

Now, a few things related to your post:

1: Read up on government, law, and the church, with specific focus on the Separation of Church and State.

2: Come up with SOMETHING to validate your points aside from your rants. They make you look emotional and foolish.

3: Learn what a debate is. Produce some facts to back your points up.

4: Learn what oxymoron means. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

5: Decide whether you are religious or not. You keep referencing how this has everything to do with god, and God's acceptance of. You then say you are "glad I am not religious nor gay" uh... make up your mind.

6: Grow up, and find a significant other. I think if you actually had someone to love, you might not hate those people who happen to be a bit different from you. You might even find it in your heart to understand why two people might want to fight for something as "simple" as the right to marry.

Again, if your beliefs make you disagree, then more power to you. I'm happy to have a civil discourse and even a real debate. Your comments however are a far cry from anything akin to a cogent point. Come up with something aside from "California BAAAAD" or name calling.

Originally Posted by poetic_folly

Wowzer.

Well, those ads are not anything we chose, and we try to avoid political ads. Google chooses the ads based on the content of the page, with us able to nix certain ads if we see them. I will let them know to quit with that one.

As to opinions... that's why they're called opinions. I'll keep an eye on the thread.

Thanks Poetic. Glad to hear you will not let them show their ads on your site. I'm in general a pretty conservative guy, but this proposal is so blatantly discriminatory, I feel like something must be said. When I saw those ads on one of my favorite sites, my stomach turned. I appreciate your action.

Cheers

[461am]

If you're a dude that's hormonally imbalanced and it causes you to want to nail other dudes in the azz, good for you. Live long and prosper...... but keep your azz out of mainstream America's values. You're still underground, you always will be. There will never come a day when the minority percentage that is gay will dominate the mainstream numbers, and it'll likely never become time when it even becomes relevant to count the percentage against the mainstream numbers.

We could use this same flawed logic to draw an analogy basically saying that everyone not of white/christian descent should be cut out from all aspects of american life & politics. Simply because they don't fall into the mainstream (and to quote you, "never will").

[one1]

tsunami78, Fluff, that's all you have. I moderate a debate forum. You play the same "game", but never produce any validity.... just debate fluff. The debate "template" doesn't hold up against an actual conversation.

You came here with an M-O, you'll leave with the same one. What happens in the middle isn't going to change anything on your end, so what's the point?

F-L-U-F-F.

Thanks Poetic. Glad to hear you will not let them show their ads on your site. I'm in general a pretty conservative guy, but this proposal is so blatantly discriminatory, I feel like something must be said. When I saw those ads on one of my favorite sites, my stomach turned. I appreciate your action.

Cheers

and as proof, you'd prefer censorship.

[Chase817]

I don't think it is right to have same sex marrige.
I love California.

That's all I have to say.